Discrediting ultramontanism by practicing it

June 19, 2014 § 15 Comments

Peter Blood made the clever quip “discrediting democracy by practicing it” in a comment thread a while back.  A discussion at Dalrock (my first comment on this in particular is here) got me thinking that “discrediting ultramontanism by practicing it” might be an accurate thematic description of the current papacy as a social phenomenon.

(See also this post.)

§ 15 Responses to Discrediting ultramontanism by practicing it

  • donalgraeme says:

    Sounds about right. Nothing quite like a reminder of humanity’s flaws to alter our perception of a human institution, or position.

  • jf12 says:

    In much the same way that doctrinally everything a priest *intends* to confect (during legitimate Mass etc etc) really does become confected, but nothing else does, so an altar boy can’t just rush out to the storeroom pantry and get some more hosts if they run out, so everything a Pope *intends* to be ex cathedra really is, but nothing else.

  • Zippy says:

    It isn’t just a matter of intention. It has to have the right objective characteristics also.

  • I’ll just say that I enjoy your and Cail’s measured remarks on the papacy. As I wrote in my own post (http://malcolmthecynic.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/rejecting-the-pill-completely-not-a-game-post/), I think that people who believe the Pope is an awful, papacy-destroying monster are well off-base.

    That, of course, doesn’t mean I don’t think there aren’t legitimate problems with things he says and how he speaks.

  • Whether they’re good, bad, or indifferent, we usually get the kind of pope we deserve.

  • Proph says:

    Ah, but discredit it to whom? The world loves him. Most Catholics love what the world loves and hence love him also. Who is seriously alarmed or even annoyed by Francis except a small sliver of the small sliver of Catholics paying attention, who are easily and often shouted down by the rest?

  • JustSomeGuy says:

    discredit it to whom?

    To any ultramontanist.

    Besides, you’ve missed the point. Even if not a single person believed that the sky is blue, that wouldn’t change the underlying truth that the sky is – in fact – blue.

  • Zippy says:

    Proph:
    One could say the same kind of things about democracy, I suppose.

  • Scott W. says:

    One could say the same kind of things about democracy, I suppose

    Indeed, the shouted down part at least:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GnQYtbbsJzM

  • jf12 says:

    Nice to see that Pope Francis excommunicated all mobsters, worldwide.
    “those who in their lives have taken this evil road, this road of evil, such as the mafiosi, they are not in communion with God – they are excommunicated!”

  • Alte says:

    Did you read what he said about people having pets instead of children?

  • Zippy says:

    Alte:
    I hadn’t, because I’m not one of those people who follows every word that the Pope utters. But I googled it after your comment, and it was a great statement:

    The pope criticized “these marriages, in which the spouses do not want children, in which the spouses want to remain without fertility. This culture of well-being … convinced us: It’s better not to have children! It’s better! You can go explore the world, go on holiday, you can have a villa in the countryside; you can be carefree. It might be better — more comfortable — to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog.”

  • Marissa says:

    Who is seriously alarmed or even annoyed by Francis except a small sliver of the small sliver of Catholics paying attention, who are easily and often shouted down by the rest?

    On liberal Catholic websites you can see all sorts of articles and comments wherein the writers are slowly coming to the horrifying realization that they’ve been betrayed by what was supposed to be “their” pope. He still opposes homosexual marriages, contraception, abortion, women ordinations, etc.

    I’m annoyed at his way of communicating sometimes, but no one’s perfect, not even translators or the Pope. What are you alarmed about?

  • […] the long run though I think that discrediting ultramontanism by practicing it is probably a good […]

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