Submission to authority is voluntary. Submission to authority is mandatory.

August 20, 2013 § 16 Comments

Yes, it is both/and not either/or.

Refraining from committing murder is voluntary.  It is also mandatory.

Refraining from committing adultery is voluntary.  It is also mandatory.

Submitting to the authority of the Roman Catholic Church is voluntary.  It is also mandatory.

Wives yielding to their husbands (in the words of the Catechism of Trent) “in all things not inconsistent with Christian piety, a willing and obsequious obedience” is voluntary.  It is also mandatory.

Doing the right thing is always voluntary.  It is also always mandatory.

Modern people have a peculiar habit of interpreting the possibility of rebellion as a putative justification for committing rebellion.

 

§ 16 Responses to Submission to authority is voluntary. Submission to authority is mandatory.

  • Elspeth says:

    Yes, it is both/and not either/or.

    Precisely.

  • Dalrock says:

    Well put. Thanks for the linkage.

  • johnmcg says:

    Oh, but the comment threads….

    Here’s what seems to be the manosphere playbook for dealing with an opposing argument:

    1.) Link the person making the opposing argument to some out-group, either based on their content (e.g. anyone saying anything remotely smacking of sympathy for feminism is a “white knight”), or based on the poster’s age, ethnicity, or marital statuse.

    2.) Take turns beating on the out group, how the poster’s membership in the outgroup explains a lot about their posts, and try to out-do each other in how much you hate the Romans.

    This isn’t what happened to me, but to others there, and all the posturing is quite unpleasant to watch.

  • Zippy says:

    John:
    I think personal attacks are prevalent everywhere on the Net. But what is qualitatively different in the manosphere (especially comboxes), which I’ve pointed out myself at times, is the “metanarrative” tendency: applying the “red pill” theoretical categories (white knight, AMOG, beta, etc) to actual combox discussion participants whom (1) we don’t know from Adam as a way to (2) tell them to shut up. Follow up with a bunch of textual high-fives.

    Note that I am speaking generally.

  • Scott W. says:

    “But what is qualitatively different in the manosphere (especially comboxes), which I’ve pointed out myself at times, is the “metanarrative” tendency: applying the “red pill” theoretical categories (white knight, AMOG, beta, etc) to actual combox discussion participants whom (1) we don’t know from Adam as a way to (2) tell them to shut up. Follow up with a bunch of textual high-fives.”

    The howlers: http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/howlers.htm

  • Zippy says:

    Scott:
    Yes, definitely howlers, but with an addition. Everywhere that there are newbies and veterans there will be howlers, unless the community has very strong self discipline. What is different is that sex differences in behaviour, feminism, etc are the actual subject matter of the manosphere. So “you are a newbie idiot” gets translated into “you are beta/white knight/etc”. Newbies aren’t just newbies as to specific subject matter and arguments; they are “blue pill” and contemptible.

    The trolls do complicate matters. Manosphere comboxes definitely get troll invasions by feminists who are familiar with the subject matter and are just there to stir things up.

    All in all it makes for a combox experience that is – quite understandably – not to everyone’s taste.

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  • Kristor says:

    Modern people have a peculiar habit of interpreting the possibility of rebellion as a putative justification for committing rebellion.

    Post-modernism – which is to say, modernism followed out to its absurd conclusions – effects a phase change from “what is not forbidden is permitted” to “what is possible is cool.” The whole forbidden/permitted dimension of analysis has dropped off the radar.

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