Those meth heads have it so much better

March 28, 2017 § 38 Comments

Liberalism – making freedom a political priority –  is, at bottom, rationally incoherent.  But it is easy to see how folks committed to it might come to see having more options – independent of whether those options are or are not of any objective value – as something to be encouraged and pursued. Doctrine abstracted and analyzed in itself is one thing.  As an active social force in a population of real people it is another.  Under liberalism authority and tradition come to be (selectively) seen as something to be overcome, so the number of available options tends to proliferate in direct proportion to the amoral trivial banality of those options. You can live in any kind of city you want as long as it sports modern architecture, Starbucks, gay pride parades, and its own vibrant Little Somalia.

Against my better judgment I got into a combox back and forth with a commenter on donalgrame about whether modern men have a harder time pursuing the good in marriage and family than modern women: whether women, objectively speaking, have better options available than men when it comes to pursuing the good in sex and marriage.  I’ve noted before that modern people can get as much sexual stimulation as they want: what has become increasingly difficult is pursuing the good in sex and marriage, not pursuing ultimately self-destructive and unsatisfactory hedonism.

One of the things that constantly comes up is that, because men and women are different, the kind of immoral sexual stimulation available to women differs from the kind of immoral sexual stimulation available to men. Sure, men can immerse themselves in pornography and masturbation all they want, and can even go to a strip bar or hire a hooker.  But the average woman has greater empowerment to fornicate specifically than the average man, because in modern hookup culture 80% of the women are fornicating with 20% of the men.

It follows (!) that men have a harder time pursuing the good in sex and marriage than women.

But at the end of the day, this is like arguing that meth heads have it so much better than heroin addicts.  Modernity does indeed produce a marketplace of all sorts of degenerate choices; but anyone who can’t see that making good choices has become harder for everyone is living under a rock.

§ 38 Responses to Those meth heads have it so much better

  • Aethelfrith says:

    You got in a combox duel with thedeti. Big mistake.

    We all know that certain corners of the internet are full of resentment addicts, so perverse that resentment, misery and blame are their only source of satisfaction.

    The only thing we can do for them is not prod them on. Then, hopefully they can finally cleanse the mildew within their souls.

  • Zippy says:

    Aethelfrith:

    I think “duel” overstates the parity of the cases and overpersonalizes the encounter, but I generally leave that sort of evaluation to others. It is true though that there is always some danger in validating the importance of a particular bit of insanity by giving it too much attention.

  • TomD says:

    I wonder if that’s an answer to why Christ never mentioned certain sins, at least not publicly in the Gospels.

  • halt94 says:

    I think the point about liberal polities generating massive amounts of undesirable choices is a good one. It goes against common sense to think that more choices are better. In most every context, it becomes very easy to have so many choices that one cannot find the choice one would like to make. Restricting the range of our choices makes it easier to make choices we actually would like to make; we aren’t distracted or overworked by sorting through a bunch of choices that we don’t want in the first place.

    The marriage market used to be better because everybody’s choices were limited; when social pressures lifted and people’s options opened up, everybody tried to become desirable to everybody and the end result is that almost nobody is desireable to anybody. The people that are able to find good matches are those that restrict their available choices and make an effort to market themselves to this target audience. For those who want a good Catholic marriage, the target audience has shrunk but if you try to broaden the target audience too much, you won’t be all that attractive to anybody. And like you and sunshine Said over at Donal’s blog, it just plain sucks for everyone who takes marriage and family life seriously.

  • donnie says:

    [T]here is the difficulty involved in becoming and staying a suitable match onesself. Modernity turns human beings into narcissistic sexual toilets, to such an extent that resisting sexual commode-ification takes unusual intransigence and self confidence, of the kind typically present only in natural sociopaths (who generally don’t care what society thinks).

    Throughout most of human history the balance of social pressures were helpful, but in the current era the social pressure to become sexually pathetic is overwhelming for the great majority of folks predisposed to normality, that is, to following social norms.

    This comment of yours was spot on – this is an enormous problem and it is damn near impossible to see a way around it.

    I remember years ago, my parish priest was a highly intelligent canon lawyer whose views were orthodox on every matter except when it came to sexual sin for single people. When I challenged him on this once, he responded that he did not believe that a bachelor who desires to be faithful to Christ, but is unchaste, is truly culpable for the sins that he commits. His reasoning was almost exactly what you described, that chastity for single people in the present social environment is such a herculean feat that it cannot be reasonably expected of normal, salt of the earth single people (especially if they are young).

    At the time I was shocked that a priest as otherwise orthodox as him would say such a thing. But nowadays I am just thankful that I do not bear the same responsibilities that he does. Because if I had to listen to young, single people whom God has entrusted to my care confess their sins of the flesh to me on a near constant basis, I’m not sure that I would be able to conclude any differently than him.

  • […] has to produce a vast homogeneous bureaucratized managed cafeteria of degenerate, trivial, dehumanizing troughs of slop into which atomized autonomous free and equal human animals can put their […]

  • TomD says:

    Part of the problem is that (especially for priests) is we want to take God’s mercy unto us – by saying that people aren’t culpable.

    I prefer the old way; we’re all sinners beyond belief, but God’s mercy is so great and indefatigable that He keeps coming back for us.

  • Roman Lance says:

    “..anyone who can’t see that making good choices has become harder for everyone is living under a rock.”

    My own daughters are going through the stage where they are seeking mates/potential mates and they are not doing well in their search.

    My marriage age daughter is being sought after by several persons, one is covered in tattoos, the other one is needy and desperate, another is acceptable, personality wise, but isn’t Catholic.

    The one guy who fits all of her criteria is simply not looking for a woman.

    So yeah, you’re right Zippy. Women, especially women who are seeking to be grafted to a man in the sacrament of matrimony, are having a tougher time of it.

    So can someone help a brother, I don’t want to be stuck with five women in my house well into my 60’s 🙂

  • Aethelfrith says:

    My own daughters are going through the stage where they are seeking mates/potential mates and they are not doing well in their search.

    Send them to the West Coast?

  • Roman Lance says:

    @ Athelfrith

    We attend the Latin Mass in Portland, OR. I don’t think I can get more West coast than that! 🙂

  • halt94 says:

    Roman Lance:

    How about sending them to Texas 😛

  • donnie says:

    My marriage age daughter is being sought after by several persons, one is covered in tattoos, the other one is needy and desperate, another is acceptable, personality wise, but isn’t Catholic.

    This situation seems to be repeating itself with just about everyone I know. Just this past weekend a wonderful, pious woman from my hometown told me that her son (who is himself a deeply devout, traditional Catholic) is dating and has fallen in love with a beautiful young woman from an Asian country who was raised to hold very traditional values herself, but has no religious faith. She told me that this girl is by far the most marriageable young woman that her son has so far come across, and that he is now deeply considering requesting a dispensation from disparity of cult in order to marry her, in the hopes that in time she will convert and be baptized. This poor woman was concerned about her son marrying a woman who lacks the faith, so she then asked for my advice on the matter! What was I to say to something like that?

    Another reason why I am grateful that I do not bear the responsibilities of our poor beleaguered priests!

  • Aethelfrith says:

    Oh :/

    At least they have an embarrassment of choices. Not only do West coast men suffer from lack of choices, they also live in one of the (more) spiritually corrupt locations in the United States, AND the [legal] immigrant influx is mostly male, which significantly lowers the signal-to-noise ratio in the marketplace.

    Having standards besides “is a woman” fundamentally narrows the pool of suitable mates. When the geographical location also disfavors your sex, singleness anxiety amplifies even further. This will lead to taking drastic measures:

    The first and most obvious, but perhaps most risky, is relocation. This is done preferably in a location with a more favorable ratio, or, isolating a peculiar trait (relative economic status, Whiteness) that is absent in the destination. West coast to East coast describes the first type, USA to Cambodia is the second. (I think Thailand’s reputation has flooded its SMP which is why Cambodia is emerging–that, and because of sex tourist exploitation).

    The second of course is to eliminate one’s standards. This typically refers to age, looks and zero children requirements, but there is one that is particularly relevant to an angst in the manosphere. Many a comment there or Reddit decry having been raised in a religious household because of the standards of sexual purity set therein, which they see as the cause of their social awkwardness. Many “success” stories involve abandoning Christianity, but once their pathological behaviors are called out on, the swingin’ ex-Christian blames their parents’ Christianity on not giving them an “outlet.”

    Of course, one thing that would shred their argument to ribbons would be to point out one of their peers growing up in the same environment getting married and having a stable family life on his own.

    Sorry, but it looks like my point swerved. Zippy’s drug addict metaphor is apt, as having heard from actual drug addicts, one motivation among many to turn to pathological, counterfeit ‘goods’ is failure to attain the highest, truest good they originally had in mind.

  • djz242013 says:

    You live in portland. I think this might be affecting your daughter’s search in a big way, if the stereotypes are even remotely close to true.

  • djz242013 says:

    Even us natural sociopaths have an incredibly hard time avoiding the ubiquitous unsatisfying sexual solutions available in this modern world.

  • Mike T says:

    But the average woman has greater empowerment to fornicate specifically than the average man, because in modern hookup culture 80% of the women are fornicating with 20% of the men.

    Heartiste (the PUA formerly known as Roissy) noted a while ago that the hookup culture screws (haha pun intended) ordinary men and the most desirable women because it lets the most successful men trade monogamy with a very high tier woman for polygamy with a stable of well above average women. That fact seems to really enrage a lot of right-liberals, particularly of the religious persuasion. It is ironic, though, because if they would accept it and run with it as problem #1 WRT marriage, they might actually accomplish some much needed, concrete social reforms.

  • This post reminds me of, “pick your poison.” But I don’t want poison! Do you have anything else?

  • TomD says:

    I am getting married in April at St Agnes, St Paul – you’re all invited to come.

    And the answer was to give up control and let God decide.

    He who made everything from nothing can make a bride from the world.

  • Aethelfrith says:

    That’s wonderful, Tom. Would you happen to have a gift registry?

  • TomD says:

    I do, though I’m not sure I should “advertise.”

  • Mike T says:

    That’s a good idea. Nothing good can come from self-doxxing in this day and age.

  • Roman Lance says:

    @dj
    “You live in portland.”

    Well not actually in Portland, we have to drive some disatance to get to Mass each Sunday. We live in a pretty rural county, which is also not very conducive to mate acquisition activities.

    And yes, the Portland stereotypes are pretty much spot on.

    As an aside, I tried the “Youth Group” thing but after seeing the offerings and having my son hit on the head with a lunch tray for simply asserting Catholic doctrine I decided no more “Youth Group”.

    (I put youth group in quotes because it is more like an infantile party group mixed with modernist indoctrination.)

  • “And the answer was to give up control and let God decide.”

    Congratulations on the marriage. Those words you have written are the key to everything. We’ve been happily married for 31 years now, as I like to say “through no fault of our own.” It’s simply the supernatural grace of God and allowing Him to lead. Marriage has been a real blessing for us,even on those days when we’ve had our doubts.

  • Advenedizo says:

    Yes. I can attest that the sacraments, in this case Marriage, works. Congratulations!

  • Chad says:

    @ Roman
    If you ever relocate for it, consider Tulsa. We have a diocese latin mass, an fssp parish, and Clear Ccreek monastery. I live by the latter and go to the fssp parish – if you stick to strictly latin mass folks the options are limited (depending on age range) but the diocese has a lot of bleed over in traditional thinking from what I’ve seen

  • TomD says:

    My reasons against advertising is not from fear of doxxing – anyone who wants to can find me, and if my calling is to be the first martyr of the internet, who am I to judge?

    I just feel a bit weird using someone else’s blog to ask for gifts.

  • Roman Lance says:

    @chad

    I know an FSSP priest who is currently serving in Oklahoma. Father P. He is a young priest, well spoken and quite easy to get along with.

    As far as sticking to strictly one flavor of Catholic, I’m not opposed to my daughter’s being courted by a Novus Ordo attendee as long as he is white and not covered in tats and piercings everywhere, though I might make an allowances for the “it was a stupid decision” excuse if they were sincere.

  • TomD says:

    @Roman Lance

    The litmus test for me will be usury – if they can’t figure out the Church’s position on usury and hold to it, then there will be discussions.

  • Roman Lance says:

    @tomD

    Good point. Maybe I should add that to my list of “Guys you shan’t be courted by”.

    Zowzaa, my list is going to be long. 🙂

  • Zippy says:

    TomD:

    What if love, authority, power, all these are to subsist in persons not things?

    The blog Infinite Semiosis has done a bit of interesting musing along those lines:

    https://infinitesemiosis.wordpress.com/

  • GJ says:

    It’s time to tie a few threads together:

    You can choose any X you want…And so on. Choice is restricted while “choosing” is emphasized.

    Young people can choose any mate they want…

    her son (who is himself a deeply devout, traditional Catholic) is dating and has fallen in love with a beautiful young woman from an Asian country who was raised to hold very traditional values herself, but has no religious faith… This poor woman was concerned about her son marrying a woman who lacks the faith, so she then asked for my advice on the matter! What was I to say to something like that?

    Point out the consequences of giving her son FREEEEEEDOOOOOM.

    “But that’s so harsh, GJ. We need to have pastoral mercy. Anyway, FREEEEEEDOOOOOM is good!”

  • GJ says:

    As parents have divested themselves of the responsibility of marrying off their children, so have they slowly shed the concomitant responsibility of making sure their children are marriageable.

    And now we’re all wondering about ‘our children have FREEEEDOOOM, but there’s no good choice!’.

  • […] expression of that love. As a sense of deprivation or craving, sexual desire is often aimed at disordered ends and is a prison for the incontinent. Thus we have the vice of […]

  • RSDB says:

    I’m only expressing my ignorance here, but this post tripped me up: if women have more opportunities for fornication and so on, wouldn’t that make pursuing the good in marriage more difficult for them?

  • Zippy says:

    RSDB:

    I suppose it depends on whether we think having more or less opportunity for a specific kind of sexual degeneracy matters in some critical way.

    Every modern person has basically unlimited opportunity to engage in sexually degenerate actions. What seems to generate outrage in some quarters is that average joes vs average janes have different material capacities to make different kinds of sexually degenerate choices.

  • GJ says:

    As parents have divested themselves of the responsibility of marrying off their children, so have they slowly shed the concomitant responsibility of making sure their children are marriageable.

    Meanwhile, there’s been some ado about how it has been informationally destructive for the marriage market that young people do not prepare for that serious commitment starting from high school years. To me, the interesting question is “what could possibly be the reason that they’re not preparing at that young age?”

  • […] sex, adultery, sodomy, masturbation, and skipping Mass on Sunday without good reason are all grave matter. (Skipping Mass is grave […]

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

What’s this?

You are currently reading Those meth heads have it so much better at Zippy Catholic.

meta

%d bloggers like this: