Hail Judas

September 8, 2014 § 17 Comments

Morality is the active aspect of holiness.

The resurrected Christ is Holy.

There had to be Good Friday in order for there to be Easter.

There had to be Judas and Pilate in order for there to be Good Friday.

There had to be Satan in the Garden in order for there to be Judas and Pilate.

Does it follow that Judas, Pilate, and Satan should be emulated as models of Christian holiness?

§ 17 Responses to Hail Judas

  • vetdoctor says:

    I paraphrase from memory. Where sin is found, grace abounds. Does this mean we should sin in order to increase in grace? God forbid!

  • Virginia Catholic says:

    To answer your question: no.

    Even leaving aside ecumenical considerations. this is a very good reason why the proposed title of “co-redemptrix” for the Mother of God is so problematic.

  • …this is a very good reason why the proposed title of “co-redemptrix” for the Mother of God is so problematic.

    While I’d rather not see it happen I don’t think it’s necessarily terrible as long as the “co” denotes inferiority to the Son and not equality.

  • Elspeth says:

    as long as the “co” denotes inferiority to the Son and not equality.

    “Co” will never denote inferiority in the minds of most people. And it shouldn’t.

    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  • Zippy says:

    Elspeth:

    “Co” will never denote inferiority in the minds of most people. And it shouldn’t.

    I don’t have a strong opinion on the theology or linguistics here – the copilot is not the equal of the pilot and is completely under his authority – but it strikes me as mostly unnecessary protestant-baiting.

  • I’m not interested right now in a pointless Marian debate with a Protestant. Zippy is correct, and I’m not actually in favor of the title.

  • (That sounded far too dismissive – I merely meant that I can’t see such a discussion going anywhere. To accept the Marian dogmas you basically need to be part of the Apostolic Churches.)

  • […] Source: Zippy Catholic […]

  • Maximus says:

    I am not really sure what this post is supposed to be, but a couple of the “premises” here are askew. Holiness is moral and spiritual perfection; it does not have a detachable “moral” aspect. If God is holy, then he both is and does his perfection–he is actus purus. Turns out the resurrected Christ is God (had always been). He does not need Pilate, or Judas, or Peter or Paul or any of the rest. He does not need the Fall, which the crucifixion and the resurrection correct definitively. He does not need the death into which the Fall had sold all humanity. He does not need humanity. God is not bound by anything in creation. He corrects human sin and death by an expiation that reveals something entirely new about God: he is a Trinity of persons capable of redeeming an offense against God by an act of God through God (Jesus Christ). The classic expression of this is in Athanasius’s De Incarnatione. This is really basic Christianity. Again, not really sure what this post is supposed to be.

  • Karl says:

    Forgive me Zippy but I cannot help it…..Pass the Doobie.

    Then this will be easily understood……man.

    I am giving away my age.

  • Zippy says:

    Maximus:

    Holiness is moral and spiritual perfection; it does not have a detachable “moral” aspect.

    Agreed. I don’t believe I suggested detachability, but in any event I didn’t intend to suggest it.

    The point I am making here isn’t a subtle point of theology. It is a simple point about morality, connected to recent discussions in which many folks have attempted to morally justify human beings slaughtering children because those Old Testament slaughters fit into “God’s plan”. (There may actually be subtle theological problems with the anthropomorphised concept of “God’s plan”, but that is beside the point).

    More generally, Islamic Christians who see God as pure Will (Allah) have been arguing that there actually are exceptions to bedrock moral norms (norms like the prohibition of murder which apply to human beings because of the nature of human beings) when Allah wills those exceptions. One of the arguments has been that the Passion of Christ was/is good, therefore the centurion applying the lash was doing God’s work and acting morally, etc etc.

    My rather simple-minded point is that sure, Calvary was “God’s plan” (as long as we understand that this is a mystery which we cannot fully grasp); but that doesn’t morally exonerate Judas.

  • CJ says:

    Calvary was “God’s plan” . . . but that doesn’t morally exonerate Judas.

    Well, yeah. This shouldn’t be controversial. Jesus said as much: “offenses must come, but woe to him by whom offenses come. It would be better if he hadn’t been born.”

  • Zippy says:

    CJ:
    A lot of the time what I do is just point out the obvious.

    One of the things that recent discussions have shown is that many people project a kind of comprehensive infallibility on Old Testament figures that no sane person, not even the most committed ultramontane, would ever project on a Pope. It is one thing to believe that the text itself is inerrant (has a true and correct interpretation). It is another thing entirely to believe that (some? all?) of the people that the text talks about were comprehensively infallible.

  • When I see this chain, I can’t help but think “God turns all things, no matter how sick, into good.”
    Irony is the fact that evil is, due to its own nature, self-destructive.

  • MarcusD says:

    So, it looks like conservatives are already defending gay marriage:

    http://www.theage.com.au/world/gay-groups-angered-as-heterosexual-men-marry-to-win-rugby-trip-20140912-10fu3t.html

    Gay groups angered as heterosexual men marry to win rugby trip

    Two men got married in New Zealand this morning and people aren’t happy about it.

    Heterosexuals Travis McIntosh and Matt McCormick tied the knot on Friday morning as part of a radio competition to win tickets to the Rugby World Cup. The “best mates” got hitched at Eden Park stadium in Auckland before a crowd of 60 family members and friends, with tens of thousands listening live.

    But the stunt has prompted a rare union between gay rights groups and social conservatives, who have both condemned the sham marriage – for very different reasons.

  • Proph says:

    Only *serious* perverse simulacra of marriage allowed, I guess.

  • […] false. The Mohammedan concept of God is very wrong: very different from the truth. (So is the Calvinist concept of God, for that matter). But that doesn’t make it about a fictional […]

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